‘East Germany was the most evil surveillance regime’
The Samuel Johnson Prize, sponsored by the BBC, is Britain’s richest literary price for non-fiction. It includes a cash component of 30,000 pounds. Funder’s Stasiland: Stories from behind the Berlin Wall was chosen from among a shortlist of international authors like Bill Bryson and Pulitzer winner Anne Applebaum.
Winning the Samuel Johnson Prize did wonders to the sales of Stasiland in the United Kingdom. It kicked the sales along in Australia. I’m not sure how much the sales have increased in the us, Holland and other countries.
Is it true that you did not have a written speech prepared because you did not win the previous six prizes you were nominated for?
That’s true. I went to London because I had been short listed for two prizes. The first was a smaller prize by the Royal Society of Literature. When we arrived for the ceremony , one of the judges told my publisher that I should sit in the front row. We thought that perhaps I had won. I spent the entire ceremony scribbling notes for a speech and then of course I didn’t win. So I thought I would never win the Samuel Johnson Prize.
That’s true. I went to London because I had been short listed for two prizes. The first was a smaller prize by the Royal Society of Literature. When we arrived for the ceremony , one of the judges told my publisher that I should sit in the front row. We thought that perhaps I had won. I spent the entire ceremony scribbling notes for a speech and then of course I didn’t win. So I thought I would never win the Samuel Johnson Prize.
You advertised your phone number and invited members of the Stasi (East German secret police) to speak about how they terrorised 17 million East Germans. Were you concerned about your security while meeting them as some of them were brutal thugs?
When I wanted to talk to the Stasi I did advertise in Pottsdam which was one of the head quarters of the Stasi. My ad read ‘Australian writer seeks former Stasi men for conversation. Publication in English and anonymity guaranteed…’ Former Stasi men are by and large very reluctant to talk about their actions. They refuse to admit that there was anything shameful in their actions. But they were the most evil surveillance regime in the world. The men did not trust the German media and so were happy to talk to a foreigner who they felt would not be prejudiced. Also, some felt that they would use the book as a medium to sow the seeds of socialism in other countries. But there were heroes like Miriam who had the courage to resist the regime. These people who resisted the dictatorship were not hard to find.
Did you feel that the book would be a risk because every aspect of Germany’s past has been so publicly scrutinised?
It’s not true that every aspect has been scrutinised. There is enormous denial about this second German dictatorship. People are very reluctant to have this regime examined. There is an enormous amount of shame in both parts of Germany that the eastern provinces went from Hitler’s dictatorship to another dictatorship without drawing a breath. They resent what this says about being German. Is there something about Germans that makes them susceptible to being ruled by dictators? There is an illusion that the past is being scrutinised. At least one in 50 people, if not one in every seven, was informing on their family and friends. These sort of statistics were in a paradoxical way, not looking at the human cost of a regime like that. After the second world war, it took Germany about 20 years to look at the Nazis. And it only happened because of international pressure to examine what happened. There was no international pressure to examine the second dictatorship. So, a lot of things and people are being swept under the carpet.
Did your family ever try to talk you out of giving up a successful career in law to pursue the dream of being a writer?
No, they did not. The law did not suit me. Law does not suit people who are interested in the truth, and it does not suit people who create things. And writers are interested in these two things. So I gave up law.
Was it hard financially to make the transition from law to writing?
It was very hard.
The leaders of East Germany were handpicked from communist Russia and would jail or do much worse things to anyone who threatened their hold on power. Was the second rung of leadership as cold blooded or were they pliable people who just wanted to hold on to their job?
Bit of both depending on their personality. In some ways it is possible to have sympathy for people who worked for the state and Stasi. A lot of them sincerely believed in the goals of communism. Some were just thugs. There were people who enjoyed protection by being part of the system and had an easier life, were able to educate their children and so on.
Is an entire generation of East Germans scarred by living in a society where every fifth person was a Government spy?
There are very definite scars. There is a sense that East Germany is being forgotten or repressed by the current incarnation of united Germany. And this repression is manifesting in different ways. There is a lot of racist and neo-Nazi violence in former East Germany. Part of it is socio-economic. Many of the young peoples’ parents were leftists and they are reacting against it by going to the right. Also, most East Germans were brought up with no historic responsibility for the holocaust. It was the fault of West Germans. East Germans were communists and so had fought the Nazis.
Is there something in the Germanic psyche that likes an authoritarian leadership? Given a very right wing government and a strong economy will it start dominating again?
The specifics depend on a particular political situation at a particular time. I am not really interested in group psychology but in individual lives. People in Germany asked me the same question about what makes them so susceptible to dictators. I thought how can I answer that? It is a question which goes to the heart of the identity of the people. If I had been a charismatic politician with demagogical inclinations I might have told a crowd that we are Germans and we are like that and we should forge a national movement. Their national pride is clear.
Why was there so much hostility to your book in Germany? This hostility to the book in Germany was very surprising. Very many people worked for the East German government and they were deeply loyal to the state. They would like to ignore that it was the most thorough surveillance state in history. They would like to say that it was a fair place where there was more equality than capitalism. My book and other historical accounts puts paid to these beliefs.
Which Indian authors have you enjoyed reading?
I have read Arundhati Roy and Amitav Ghosh with great admiration. Once I have finished having babies, I will also be travelling to India.
October 16, 2004